Craig's Record Cleaning Concoction

[mrsdoyle]

The concotion really WORKS!!! It has been a breeze to restore my lp's. Thanks again.

[Craig Maier]

Great to hear! I particularly like the reasonable cost of the concocotion compared to commercial record cleaning products. One gallon of solution seems to be enough to clean a few hudred albums. But, when I ran out of my first batch, I still had plenty of left-over ingredients (from the first batch) except for the distilled water which costs about a dollar for a gallon.

[steeve]

Craig:

Thanks for posting this recipe! It took me awhile to track down Cascade Complete Gel- most of the stores stock just the regular Cascade Gel (which contains chlorine bleach as does practically everything else on the market!) I finally did track it down locally at Target and K-Mart. Costco sells Cascade Advanced Power which is another name for "Cascade Complete with Bleach Hydroclean Power" (chlorine bleach or sodium hydroxide is not listed in the ingredients but with "bleach" in the name I figured I better not use it since I could not locate a MSDS for it).

The cleaning formula seemed to work well- I'm using a DIY system like the one spelled out in the Grynx website:

http://www.grynx.com/projects/record-cleaning-machine

I use a heavy duty Denon turntable I just picked up on craigslist to turn the albums, and made a "label protector" with a 4" round blank from Tap Plastic, which is 1/4" thick. I put a strip of 3/8" wide 1/4" thick closed cell weatherstripping around the outside to seal out liquids and had them drill out a 1/4" hole in the center which I reamed out for a snug fit on my turntable spindle. I've been using a VPI HW-16 brush, which works extremely well for wet brushing. I then vacuum up the spent fluid with a redesigned crevice tool and my small canister vacuum. (I couldn't find a thick velvet at the fabric stores so I cut apart an old Discwasher brush to line the slot I cut into the crevice tool with my Dremel.) Enough on the technical details on my rig...

As for my impressions of your cleaning solution, I think it works pretty good. I do think that it is a bit sudsier than the regular Discwasher fluid- perhaps there should be less of the Cascade. I did try adding drops of Kodak Photo Flo as an additional surfactant, but will try making up another batch with maybe half as much Cascade.

The new Discwasher fluid in the small black bottles has a very strong alcohol smell to it- which I do *not* remember with the older red bottles. Do you know if they have redesigned the formula? If not, I guess much of the alcohol had evaporated out of the old bottles I had around...

Your cleaning solution also feels soapier on the fingertips than the Discwasher fluid in the black bottles, so I'm not sure if I would use it as a replacement in my Discwasher D4+ kit, although I do think it is a good solution for my DIY vacuum rig (especially when you consider the prices for the commercial products you can buy- ouch! )

Here is the routine what so far seems to work best for me: with the LP on my Denon TT and the label protector in place, I will squirt on a solution of distilled water with about 40 drops of Kodak Photo Flo per gallon and then brush it around with my VPI brush. I then apply 1:4 solution of Glass Plus and spread it around with my VPI brush, allowing it to set for maybe two minutes before doing a strong VPI brushing after which I vacuum up the spent solution. I follow that with a rinse of distilled water which I also vacuum up. I consider all of that to be my pre-cleaning routine, which I then follow with a more thorough cleaner, like your Discwasher fluid. I will apply it, spread it around, let it set for a minute or two, brush it firmly with the VPI brush and then vacuum it up. Followed by one more rinse of distilled water which is vacuumed up. I have a few Discwasher brushes around which I use to help dry the records and then rip them to 24 bit/96khz files on my Music Hall 2.2 turntable. It might seem like a lot of work, but the more time I spend on cleaning the albums before the rip, the less time I spend cleaning up the rips with software.

BTW here is another formula I've tried, with a variation for a heavier duty mixture:

1 gallon distilled water (less 18 ounces)
1 pint 91% alcohol
2 ounces Lysol Direct*
30-40 drops Kodak Photo Flo

1/2 gallon distilled water
1/2 gallon 91% alcohol
3 ounces Lysol Direct*
30-40 drops Kodak Photo Flo

* I couldn't find this so I used Lysol Antibacterial Kitchen Cleaner with the same two "magic" ingredients

from...

http://www.soundstage.com/synergize/synergize041998.htm

And here is a very simple cleaning solution I found on the Steve Hoffman forums:

1 parts distilled water
1 part 90% Isopropal Alcohol
5 drops dishwater detergent (dawn works better than others)

[Perhaps someone can fill in more exact quantities or proportions on that- my guess is that the total quantity would be a pint or a quart.]

In any case, the Discwasher solution seems to work better than these other ones with my vacuum rig, especially if Glass Plus is used for a pre-cleaner (perhaps it is good for removing the mold release compound- I dunno). FWIW all of the different cleaning routines I've tried seem to work better if I start out with the Glass Plus following by a distilled water rinse. And finish up everything with another distilled water rinse and final vacuuming.

Thanks again, Mr. Maier!

Steve Ahola

http://www.blueguitar.org/

http://www.myspace.com/steveahola

[Craig Maier]

Quoting Steeve:

"The new Discwasher fluid in the small black bottles has a very strong alcohol smell to it- which I do *not* remember with the older red bottles. Do you know if they have redesigned the formula?"

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Sorry, but I do not know what the formulation is for their solution at this point in time.

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I think that you are using a good approach in that you are experimenting and trying to refine the formulation in order to achieve the optimal results. I would, however, be careful about using too much alcohol. I am not a chemist, but I believe that the use of too much alcohol could possibly damage the plasticizers in the vinyl. Let us know of any further improvements that you discover.

[steeve]

Quoting Steeve:

"The new Discwasher fluid in the small black bottles has a very strong alcohol smell to it- which I do *not* remember with the older red bottles. Do you know if they have redesigned the formula?"

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Sorry, but I do not know what the formulation is for their solution at this point in time.

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I think that you are using a good approach in that you are experimenting and trying to refine the formulation in order to achieve the optimal results. I would, however, be careful about using too much alcohol. I am not a chemist, but I believe that the use of too much alcohol could possibly damage the plasticizers in the vinyl. Let us know of any further improvements that you discover.

Good point about the alcohol! With the Discwasher 4+ system they tell you to put 3 or 4 drops on the pad so the amount of alcohol in their solution would not be so critical when used as directed (which is certainly not the way that I use it! )

BTW Glass Plus supposedly has neither alcohol or ammonia in it, although I am still trying to track down the MSDS for it so that I know what exactly *is* in it. It was recommended by several people over at the Steve Hoffman forum, but by itself it doesn't seem to do much for fingerprints- while your formula works great on the fingerprints, etc. But when using the Glass Plus as a pre-cleaner I hear a lot less crackle on my records- especially between the songs.

Thanks again for posting this recipe- I have a hunch that some companies are selling it for $10 an ounce!

Steve Ahola

EDIT Okay, I made up another batch- this time I cut the Cascade in half and added in 10 drops of Kodak Photo Flo per quart. (Cascade will take the skin off of your fingers so I feel better about this now! LOL) From that solution, I also made up a 50-50 mix (using distilled water) which I would trust as a direct replacement in the Discwasher D4+ kit and is probably closer to the original formula in the red bottles than the stuff that they are selling now.

[Craig Maier]

My WAG (wild ass guess) is that glass plus may contain some organic cleaning compounds since it does not have the more common alcohol or ammonia active ingredients. As for those guys selling this stuff for 10 bucks an oz, more power to 'em! That is capitalism at work. But, I prefer to keep the money from flying out of my wallet at real high rates like that and that is why I translated their formulation from their patent (which has expired since it is past the 17 year mark).

[Lord Theo]

78 rpm cleaning solutions

I'm using distilled water with a few drops of photoflo as a surtefecant. Is their a better concoction?

[Geebster]

I'm using distilled water with a few drops of photoflo as a surtefecant. Is their a better concoction?

I swear by Craig's concoction. For me at least, it does a far better job than any commericial application..... and it's cheap!!

GB

[steeve]

My WAG (wild ass guess) is that glass plus may contain some organic cleaning compounds since it does not have the more common alcohol or ammonia active ingredients. As for those guys selling this stuff for 10 bucks an oz, more power to 'em! That is capitalism at work. But, I prefer to keep the money from flying out of my wallet at real high rates like that and that is why I translated their formulation from their patent (which has expired since it is past the 17 year mark).

They certainly have the right to sell their concoctions for $10 an ounce, but I think that their wild claims have more to do with P.T. Barnum than keynesian economics...

I could certainly do without the snake oil!

Steve Ahola

P.S. Can you post the patent number? I'd like to take a look at it myself... Disclaimer: I am a chemist nor do I play one at recess.

P.P.S. I guess I'd need to track down the patent for GlassPlus to find out what it contains (I just sent them an email from their website asking for more details on the ingredients). EDIT Here is a link to the MSDS (hint: it contains 1-2% alcohol):

http://msds.reckittprofessional.com/...t/372961_r.pdf

[steeve]

I swear by Craig's concoction. For me at least, it does a far better job than any commericial application..... and it's cheap!!

GB

I think that Lord Theo was suggesting using distilled water with Kodak Photo Flo as a pre-treatment for a cleaner such as Craig's. Kodak Photo Flo is called a "water wetter" since it decreases the surface tension of water, allowing it to soak into the record grooves much better (rather than just pooling on top). So when you apply the cleaner, it soaks right down to the dirt so you don't need to use as much.

I had a hard time finding Kodak Photo Flo locally so I had to order it on-line and had it shipped on a slow boat from New York- it took almost two weeks for them to get it out to California (maybe they sent it in a covered wagon across the Rockies )

Steve Ahola

P.S. A question for the experts out there- is a drop a drop? I just got a very small eyedropper from Tap Plastics and was wondering if a drop from that was smaller than a drop from a larger eyedropper? I guess I need to get some eyedroppers out and start measuring...

[Lord Theo]

Is anyone "mixing their own" specifically for 78's?

[Craig Maier]

Quoting Steve:

"P.S. A question for the experts out there- is a drop a drop? I just got a very small eyedropper from Tap Plastics and was wondering if a drop from that was smaller than a drop from a larger eyedropper? I guess I need to get some eyedroppers out and start measuring..."

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If I remember my physics correctly, a drop is a drop for a given chemical compound without regard for the type of dropper used. In other words, the volume contained within a drop is determined by the ratio of the surface tension of the compound coupled with the liquids density. But, I am remembering what I think that I learned from roughly 40 years ago in college. As for the patent number, it may be somewhere here on this forum going back a few years. Check it out via the forums search engine.

[Geebster]

I think that Lord Theo was suggesting using distilled water with Kodak Photo Flo as a pre-treatment for a cleaner such as Craig's. Kodak Photo Flo is called a "water wetter" since it decreases the surface tension of water, allowing it to soak into the record grooves much better (rather than just pooling on top). So when you apply the cleaner, it soaks right down to the dirt so you don't need to use as much.

Steve Ahola

I've been using Craig's formula since it was first posted and never have had the solution "pool" on top. At least with my recordings, I have never found a need for a pre-treatment. It does a great job on it's own. Granted, I don't collect grungy, grimy LP's. In this internet age, I have never found the need to accept an inferior recording (dirt or damage). In the rare instances where I've passed on a particular disgustingly filthly LP, I was able to find a far better copy easily.

My time is far too valuable to waste spending cleaning foul LP's. For most people, they have more time than money, but for me it's the exact opposite. So, with that said, my cleaning requirements are quite modest as most of my recordings are in pretty good shape.

GB

[Craig Maier]

I would not think it necessary to use Photo-Flo as a pre-conditioner because "Craig's Concotion" includes two ingredients that are surfacants. Please refer to the formulation at the top of this thread for details.

[Geebster]

I would not think it necessary to use Photo-Flo as a pre-conditioner because "Craig's Concotion" includes two ingredients that are surfacants. Please refer to the formulation at the top of this thread for details.

Exactly. That's why haven't had any of the "pooling" as described in another post.

GB