DCM Recording Problem

[RLee]

I am a complete novice in this area, so please bear with me. After many months, I finally completed the equipment setup to use my copy of DC Millenium, and tonight attempted to simply record an analog source (cassette tape) to a hard drive. To my great disappoinmet, the playback consists of scratchy noise which crudely corresponds to the bass line of the music. At high volume, *some* of the music can be faintly heard.

The setup consists of a Yamaha receiver, Harmon-Kardon preamp, and for tonight's recording, an old Teac cassette deck. The deck is cabled to the preamp; the preamp output is teed to both the receiver auxillary input and the line-in jack of the sound card. The sound card is an Aureal Vortex2 SQ2500, the PC is a Celeron 433mHZ w/256MB RAM and 80GB HDD running W2K/SP4.

During recording, both the crappy PC speakers and the sound system speakers accurately played the music being recorded. The DCM file was large (at least indicating that something had happened), but whether played back through DCM or WinAmp, it is just terrible.

I've tried adjusting the output of both the deck and preamp, but at anything significantly lower the 100% output on both units, the VU meters on the DCM recording window don't deflect. Also tried recording with the receiver off - no change. The sound card works properly in all other functions, but the problem seems isolated to the card or the software.

All suggestions are welcome.

[DougMac]

Eliminate Variables

Let's start by eliminating variables. I don't think this is part of the problem, but it will simplify finding the answer. Feed the line out from the tape deck directly into the line input of your sound card.

When you hit record in DC6, you should see the meter deflect into the yellow. If not, use the volume adjustments on the soundcard screen to adjust the input volume appropriately. Check the signal at the deck by listening through headphones. Check the signal from the soundcard the same way. They should sound the same. Record a segment, then listen to the results.

What kind of sound card are you using?

Doug

[Craig Maier]

Quoting DougMac

"- - - use the volume adjustments on the soundcard screen to adjust the input volume appropriately."

--------------

I think DougMac is onto it here. Either the line input gain is turned all the way down, or the input mixer is not set up correctly for the soundcard. Let us know what the soundcard mixer settings are.

[RLee]

Quoting DougMac

"- - - use the volume adjustments on the soundcard screen to adjust the input volume appropriately."

--------------

I think DougMac is onto it here. Either the line input gain is turned all the way down, or the input mixer is not set up correctly for the soundcard. Let us know what the soundcard mixer settings are.

The (PCI) sound card is an Aureal-branded SQ2500 Vortex2. Reading your comments, I realized that I had not installed the Aureal drivers for this card (was using the native W2K driver), so went ahead and did so. Then I checked the line-in mixer control and found the setting to be about mid-way through the available range. I tried increasing this setting to maximum, then reducing the output of both the preamp and cassette deck to about 75% of full scale. This resulted in no deflection on the DCM recording meters, and no discernible signal recorded to the HDD. It appears, in the current configuration, that the deck and/or preamp outputs must be maxxed to see a signal on DCM.

As time permits today (spousal directives conflict :^\), I'll try the direct connection of the tape deck to the sound card, and check outputs through headphones.

Thank you for your comments and suggestions.

[Craig Maier]

Hi again,

Is the device I/O in DCM definitely pointing its input and output towards your Vortex 2 sound card and not another one which is perhaps native to the motherboard? BTW - don't you hate when spousal priorities get in the way of the "real priorities"??

[RLee]

Hi again,

Is the device I/O in DCM definitely pointing its input and output towards your Vortex 2 sound card and not another one which is perhaps native to the motherboard? BTW - don't you hate when spousal priorities get in the way of the "real priorities"??

Hi Craig,

Sorry for the delay. I checked the system BIOS and the built-in sound card is in fact disabled there. And DCM is definitely set up to use the Vortex2 card. All entries in Device Manager are normal (no yellow tags.)

I outputted the cassette deck directly to the line-in jack of the sound card as a trial per your suggestion. Even at 100% output setting on the deck, I got minimal deflection on the DCM VU meters. No problem getting sound out of the PC speakers, though. A recorded segment played back with all volume controls maxxed gave what sounded like an accurate recording at a barely audible level. The DCM display (although I have no expertise in evaluating it) shows very tiny blips along the signal paths. It's as if the source is muted.

Any ideas? I'm thinking of trying a microphone just for a test.

And yes, the spousal priority system needs serious adjustment (of course, that's probably the perspective from either side of the spousal equation

Lee

[Doug]

If not, use the volume adjustments on the soundcard screen to adjust the input volume appropriately.

Eric, If you can here the sound fine through the speakers, then you must have set it up properly through the line input on the soundcard. I just wondered if you were changing the volume of the "playback" controls - these also include a "line in" slider etc that enables the user to adjust all audio inputs to play back at the same volume. They have no effect on the recorded volume.

When you were adjusting the recorded volume, did you
a) double click on your speaker icon at the bottom right of the screen to bring up the soundcard control screen,
b) then choose "options" from the file menu on the soundcard screen
c) then tag recording, ensuring "line-in" was ticked in the list below.
d) then check the selection box under the "line-in" volume slider
e) then adjust the master recording volume and the line-in volumes?

From experience (including myself when I 1st started), allot of people new to the game get confused between the playback & recording options for soundcards in Microsoft windows. The default option is always the playback controls whilst the recording options are hidden in a weird set-up that looks similar to the playback window. It is dead easy to get the two confused, as every time you close and open the window, it defaults to the playback volume controls. Ensure that when you are changing the input volume that the soundcard window is titled "Recording Control" and not "Volume control"


Simple I know, but I hope this is the problem rather than a driver/compatibility problem. That's always harder to fix.

[BigAl]

From experience (including myself when I 1st started), allot of people new to the game get confused between the playback & recording options for soundcards in Microsoft windows.

LOL Doug, I did that myself, but as a result of the experience was able to help others...

[Doug]

Hi Big Al,

problem is; is still do it on occasion...I hate how the window always reverts back to the "volume control" esp. when you're not looking!

(that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it)

[RLee]

Eric, If you can here the sound fine through the speakers, then you must have set it up properly through the line input on the soundcard. I just wondered if you were changing the volume of the "playback" controls - these also include a "line in" slider etc that enables the user to adjust all audio inputs to play back at the same volume. They have no effect on the recorded volume.

When you were adjusting the recorded volume, did you
a) double click on your speaker icon at the bottom right of the screen to bring up the soundcard control screen,
b) then choose "options" from the file menu on the soundcard screen
c) then tag recording, ensuring "line-in" was ticked in the list below.
d) then check the selection box under the "line-in" volume slider
e) then adjust the master recording volume and the line-in volumes?

From experience (including myself when I 1st started), allot of people new to the game get confused between the playback & recording options for soundcards in Microsoft windows. The default option is always the playback controls whilst the recording options are hidden in a weird set-up that looks similar to the playback window. It is dead easy to get the two confused, as every time you close and open the window, it defaults to the playback volume controls. Ensure that when you are changing the input volume that the soundcard window is titled "Recording Control" and not "Volume control"


Simple I know, but I hope this is the problem rather than a driver/compatibility problem. That's always harder to fix.

Doug & BigAl,

Well, as Homer would say, "D'Oh!" I hate how enthusiasm can lower IQ. I was, indeed, trying to adjust recording volume on the Playback Control - which clearly doesn't work well ;-) So now, after the above guidance, I'm cooking. Have to see whether/how the preamp+deck setup works, then maybe try recording off some vinyl.

BTW, I have a recording PC located at the music system, and plan to network it to another (faster) PC for manipulating the .wav files with DCM. Any issues (quality loss, noise increase,...) known to you all associated with transferring raw .wav files over a (wired) network? How about playing the DCM-tweaked files over the network on the sound system?

Thanks for your help, 'though I feel like a moron!

RLee

[Doug]

Well, as Homer would say, "D'Oh!" I hate how enthusiasm can lower IQ.....Thanks for your help, 'though I feel like a moron!

No problem, but if you're a moron I'd hate to think what I am for making the same mistake after x number of years!

[TimG]

Networking PCs

BTW, I have a recording PC located at the music system, and plan to network it to another (faster) PC for manipulating the .wav files with DCM. Any issues (quality loss, noise increase,...) known to you all associated with transferring raw .wav files over a (wired) network? How about playing the DCM-tweaked files over the network on the sound system?

RLee

There should be no issues regarding transfering files over a network since they are digital. I do it all the time.
I'm not sure what you mean by "playing the DCM-tweaked files over the network on the sound system". I've played one file from one computer on several other computers at the same time over my home network. Be aware that there may be bandwidth limitations.