Chop Files Error Message

[Ringmaster]

I have a 22-track file that has successfully chopped 18 tracks, then I get an error message stating:

"An error occured writing to the file D:\Pop Organ Varieties\19. Take The "A" Train.wav. The disk may be full or the file permissions may be incorrect."

I have 400 Gb of Free Space; and, the file permissions are correct.

What is my best move?; should I select the remaining files and create a new destination file, then "Save As" a new file, and perform the chop feature on the new file, to see if the remaining tracks chop to the play list?

[Craig Maier]

Hi Ringmaster,

I do not know. It could be something related to the use of the D drive. I have never seen that error message, but I always use the C drive to keep my project work and temp files. When I am done with a restoration, then I transfer the final product over to my D drive or something similar.

What happens if you set up this project on your C drive? Does the error message still occur?

It could be a bug related to non-C drive use for this type of operation, but I am not sure.

Craig

[sus4chord]

I use several drives other than the C: drive for many of my file chops.

First of all, did you actually use the double quotes for the file name? Your initial post said:

Take the "A" Train

I wonder if that caused the problem. If that's not it, I would run chkdsk on your drive to make sure you're not developing some bad sectors. I would also test it on a different drive (C to see if it works there.

But, I know on my machine, I often chop files to D:, E:, and even several USB connected drives with no problems.

[Ringmaster]

Hey sus4chord,

I deleted the quotation marks around "A", and it worked.

I created a song list and moved all of the tracks into it. I have another two albums (about 25 tracks); this is an old Readers Digest boxed set.

When I finish processing the rest of the tracks, and move them to the song list, is this when I do the "Quantitize for CD Audio"?

If so, (I use the iTunes for my Library), can I copy & paste the song list to my Library, and make a CD later?

[Craig Maier]

Hi -

After you chop a big file into smaller pieces, then apply the quantize for CD audio command. This step in the process only really matters when you are dealing with cancatenated files as found in concert performances, spoken word speechs, soundtracks, and so forth. I do not think that the system really cares unless you are planning on using CD Disc At Once mode.

Craig

[sus4chord]

I always hit the "quantize" command before chopping. My understanding (I think this was either from reading the manual or from help on the forum, but it was a long time ago), was that this put the track markers on some sort of boundary that CD tracks liked to line up on when you burned the CD. I always burn as disk at once, and do not use the 2 second gap that some burners insert. So my tracks all butt up to each other on the CD. Since I started doing that, I've had fewer problems with CD's not playing in some players. Several CD players had trouble with the 2 second gap and not quantizing sometimes resulted in an audible click between tracks (typically noticeable on live tracks, where one goes right into the other). So out of habit, I just quantize before chopping and burning CD's without the gap.

To each his or her own.

Additional info...I just looked in the manual and it says, "This feature [Quantize for CD Audio] moves a marker to a multiple of 2352 bytes to provide compatibility with CD data grouping so that glitch-less indexing can occur. This feature is particularly useful when chopping a large .wav file into pieces for transfer to CD-R. For a single CD, just select the command to properly quantize. For large files, bring up the file, place the markers, select the quantize command, and all the markers shall be moved to the proper positions for CD quantization, then chop the file into pieces.

So, I guess either way works - before or after chopping.

[Ringmaster]

The reason this is somewhat "problematic" for me is: I haven't found a description that I can understand, as to just what does "Quantization" do?; or, what is the definition of "Quantization"? In my mind, I always thought "Quantization" moved the manually placed markers so that an "even gap" is placed automatically between the tracks for indexing. I've always manually placed a one second gap at the beginning and ending of each track for play-back "searching"; and I've never heard any clicks or pops between tracks, but it looks like I do not have to do this function manually anymore.

In the past, I have always processed "Gain Normalize" on the entire wave file, using Diamond Cut; then, I transferred my final rendition to another program (because it showed minute and second time dilenations), then I manually placed a one second "silence" before and after each track, then I deleted "Lead-in/Lead-out on live recordings, or use "Fade-in/Fade-out" when the artist started to perform before the announcer completed his introduction, and/or the announcer started commenting before the artist finished.

Now I am trying to learn how to do the final operations using DC Live v7.5. I find I can do the "fade-in/fade-out" on the individual tracks after I've broken up the main file; and from reading the manual, I can automatically do the 2-second spacing between tracks; or, I can use the "Quantize for CD Audio" and it will automatically accomplish my spacing for me, based on the 2352 Bytes (Red Bood Standard) for track spacing (which looks like it is the preferred method); this could vary somewhat (not necessarily the 2-second manual spacing that I have been doing), but still give me the correct spacing for "indexing" when I create my "PlayList".

At the present time, I do not create sub-indexing for Classical performances; however, I may do this further down the line, if/when I get involved with long scores that might need sub-indexing; so, this is not an immediate issue.

Does my application for performing this function, using the DC 7.5 program seem logical?

[Dan McDonald]

Ringmaster - the way I understand it is something like this:

Music CDs, since they are not analog media, operate in chunks of information. On a CD, there is a number, 2352, which is the number of bits of information it likes to have grabbed at a given time. So, when tracks are put onto a music CD, they need to be in multiples of 2352 bits. That's just a very tiny amount of information. If the files are not in the right multiple, some 'blank space' needs to be added to the beginning or end of the file to make it fit right, adn the writing software does that automatically.
If you use the TAO (track at once) method, then you won't likely notice the space the writer has added. Although sometimes you may here a bit of a glitch sound, hence sus4chord mentions that he does the quantize for cd all the time.

If you use the DAO (disk at once) method for writing the cd, the CD still needs to be in the correct multiple, but there's no 2-second gap between songs, so you will be more likely (but not always) to hear these very short bits of silence that the software has had to add on to put the file in the correct format.

All the quantize for cd command does is move the markers to the spot where it's a multiple of 2352 bits. Your own dropping of markes is much more inexact than that, so you'll never notice, but the software does.

The last file in the chopping sequence has to have the add-on at the end of the file to make it correct, which is something you'll never hear anyway.

Does that make sense?
Dan

[Ringmaster]

Dan,

Yes, your message is perfectly understandable; in a way, it's what I thought but I wasn't sure. I have accidentally deleted parts of my final renditions quite a few times, during my learning process, and it's discouraging to have to go back to a previous rendition and do it over again, once I am pleased with the final "Cut". That's why I ask some of these dumb questions, when I'm not sure what will happen next.

Now, after I finish the complete boxed set, four records, and have one long song list, do you think I could Cut & Paste it to my iTunes Library without making any CD's? From the way I read the program, it looks like I have to actually create a CD, in order for the "Quantization" to process properly; then I would have to download the CD to my iTunes Library. Does this sound logical?

I already had about 15,000 tracks in my iTunes Library, that I have already learned the "in's & out's" of, and did not want to switch to the DC Tunes Library, because of the learning curve; and, all I've been doing is learning how to use all of the new stuff, and not doing enough of my music restoration....

Thanks to all of you guys for your help.

[Dan McDonald]

Hi Ringmaster -

I don't use the Itunes library, so I can't tell you much about it. If your only use of the files is for Itunes, then it won't really matter whether you quantize or not.

For the quantization, it just needs you to have markers set up - it moves the markers before you cut the files. If I was chopping a bigger file anyway, I'd quantize before chopping, then I'd have the files for Itunes or for burning to a CD and it wouldn't matter.

If I'd already chopped the files and hadn't quantized, then I wouldn't worry about it if I was mainly using them with Itunes.

Also, there are some free programs out there that will go and chop off the padding automatically. And if these are from records, rather than a live performance, the extra padding will hardly ever create an issue.

Dan

[Ringmaster]

Dan,

I can make CD's from the iTunes program; so I think it is probably important that I either "Quantitize", or put the 2-seconds between the tracks before I copy/paste to iTunes; and I think Quantitization is the best choice.

Now, does anybody know if I can "Copy/Paste" from my Diamond Cut playlist to to my iTunes Library. I keep all of my Diamond Cut processing on my "D" drive, but I keep my Audio Library (iTunes), on my external drive "F"; and all of my Audio files on my computer, are kept in the .wav format. I never let iTunes search my computer for .wav files, because all of my unprocessed files on my "D" drive would wind up in my "Audio Library".

I really don't like to reference other programs on the Diamond Cut Forum; but, I am sure other Forum members use iTunes, for their Library, because it has been "out there" for a long time, and they have already figured out how do to what I am trying to do.

I'm an older person, and I am getting tired of trying to learn all of this new stuff, because I go off on tangents, and don't get back to doing my restorations; also, I have a lot of LP albums recorded and ready to process, and I'd like to get them done, while I still remember what I am doing.

I hope I am not the only person on the "Forum" that is encountering the same problem; right now, I think it's funny. but, tomorrow.....

[Dan McDonald]

I don't think you'll need 2 seconds between tracks with itunes. If you're playing them on an Ipod, it will automatically give a short space betweeen tracks (which drives you crazy if it's a live performance, but is fine for recorded material).
Dan

[Ringmaster]

Dan,

Thanks for your response!

On any Live Recordings, I always insert a silence between songs, and I "Fade Out" the end of the preceding song, and "Fade In" the beginning of the next song. In the past, I've always inserted a 2-second gap.

I do not plan on using an Ipod; however, I may in the future, see if I can transfer my music to my GPS; it will hold 4 Gb of Audio. I guess this is the same as using an Ipod, right? But, since I always separate my tracks; and, always stay in the .wav domain, do you agree that I should always "Quanticize"?

I still need to know if I can copy from my "D" drive (this drive is only used for processing); and paste to my external drive "F" (this is my complete Audio Library). I back up my "F" drive, to my "G" external drive. Both of the drives are 750 Gb, so there is plenty of space for my "Audio Library" wave files.

[Dan McDonald]

Hi Ringmaster -
Well, I think, like sus4chord, you might as well, because it only takes a second and then you're all set. It doesn't hurt anything to have it, and it can avoid issues later on if you burn to CD.

Dan

[Ringmaster]

Thanks Dan,

I think I am okay now.