multifilter and bypass

[ptinker56]

I'm now using version 7.15, but I've noticed in previous versions as well...

When I'm using the multifilter, I often put some of the filters in bypass so that I can tune parameters one by one. However, that setting doesn't seem to "stick" properly. If I put a filter in the multifilter in bypass, it doesn't stay there (at least, it's unchecked in the dialog box when I check it again). This behavior makes it really hard to know what's causing a specific problem I'm trying to overcome.

The specific symptom seems to be:

• open a .wav file
• Open multifilter
• put in more than one filter
• set one of them (say, the second one) to bypass and close the no. 2 dialog.
• hit preview on the multifilter, then stop it by hitting the preview button again
• open

the no. 2 dialog -- the bypass button is un-checked!

[Dan McDonald]

You need to leave the dialog box open. At least that's what I do. If you leave the bypass dialogs open, you can toggle them off and on. while previewing.

I think that's a safety to make sure you don't have to open all the dialogs and check them all before you run the filters. This way, if you have a filter in the multifilter, it's working unless the dialog box is open and checked as bypass. Otherwise, you'd have to check every filter every time you wanted to run a multifilter to make sure you didn't turn anything off.

Dan

[ptinker56]

I can agree that the default behavior is a "safety," but it should be modifiable. Now I have the opposite problem of someone in the situation you describe: when I start, all filters are active. Worse, I *cannot* turn some of them off and have them remain off. This isn't an issue of convenience, is an issue of capability: I can't do what I want with the tool.

A solution, I think, is to mark the filter icons in the multifilter visually -- put a red box around filters that are bypassed, and be able to turn them on/off with a single click. (xxxx did this many years ago.)

[ptinker56]

By the way, I neglected to mention that Dan's partial solution works well (sorry, Dan). It may not be convenient if you have a lot of filters in your multifilter, but it does appear to work.

[Dan McDonald]

Hi Pete -
Why do you want to keep filters in that are turned off? When I experiment with the settings, etc. I just open up which ever ones I am experimenting with and set them on or off, and use the preview function. If there is one I need to turn off to get what I want, I just pull it out of the multifilter.

Since you can save as many presets as you want, I have a generic one that I start with that is close, then experiment with it, and save the one that works best - typically with a name that is what I used it on, such as "Larry Coryell - Audience cassette" or "Rostroprovich - Berlin Philharmonic LP" or whatever. Then when I have source material that I think is similar to one of these older restorations, I start with that one and experiment with it, pull out or add the filters that I need, and then save that preset.

Dan

[ptinker56]

Dan, I do the same -- start with a generic set of filters that often accomplish what I want together. ... but each typically needs to be tweaked a bit, and pulling them in and out of the multifilter is tedious and invites error (putting them back in the wrong place ...). That doesn't seem ideal to me.

I note from your choice of example audios that you may be working typically with relatively long audio passages. I do 78s almost exclusively, and usually ones in rather bad condition. Although I have, in the past, kept presets for each side of each 78, that really slows things down. I have hundreds, if not thousands, of 78s to get through, so even short diversions are major.

I just discovered another feature/bug.

• I open a multifilter and expose the dialog boxes for several of them (as you suggest)
• I preview using the preview button on the multifilter dialog
• I bypass one of the filters using the bypass button on that dialog
• I turn bypass on on the multifilter dialog to hear the original
• I turn bypass off on the multifilter dialog -- I would expect this action simply to reverse my previous action, leaving one filter in "bypass," but ...
• Presto! All dialogs are now in "no bypass" mode!

[Dan McDonald]

Yes, that's the way it works - I don't think it's a bug. If you put the entire filter on bypass, then take it off bypass, it will take the bypass off of every filter in the bypass.

You can hit play instead of previewing the multifilter if you want to leave the multifilter with some bypassed and some not bypassed.

I wasn't suggesting that you take the filters out and put them back. I just meant that I take them out if I'm not going to use them. Here's what I mean:

Three impulse filters. Open all three, put two on bypass, get the first one set. Then work with #1 and #2, with #3 on bypass, adjusting #2. After getting #2 set, I work on #3. When it's set, I just close them all and I'm done. Beause these filters operate on the output of the filter before, the order makes a difference, so you need to do them sequentially. I think that's why it's generally not a problem for me. Basically, I start on the left and bypass everything on the right until I get the left settled, then move across the filter. Sometimes I do move one around, but when I do that, I have to re-examine all the settings of those after it, so I try to keep a specific order as I set it up.

Dan

[ptinker56]

Dan,

Yes, that's the way it works - I don't think it's a bug. If you put the entire filter on bypass, then take it off bypass, it will take the bypass off of every filter in the bypass.

I'd say that it's "unexpected behavior," and in my book (I've been a software developer for 30+ years) that's a bug. ... and I don't think it's documented anywhere. Oh well, forewarned is forearmed.

You can hit play instead of previewing the multifilter if you want to leave the multifilter with some bypassed and some not bypassed.

Ah, but that way I can't hear the effects of the filters I do want in place -- I hear only the unfiltered input.

Thanks for your responses, Dan!

[Dan McDonald]

I guess I'm not understanding the problem. It seems to me that you leave the filters open and bypass as many or as few as you want, and you hit preview to hear the multifilter, you hear what you want to hear.

If you hit play for DC7, you hear non-filtered; if you hit preview on the multifilter, you hear whatever filters are not bypassed.

Maybe someone else can take a crack at this? I just don't see the problem.

Dan

[rickc]

Pete

It is definitly intentional behavior that the bypass settings are not saved in the preset, basically for the reasons Dan states.
I do like the idea of a red x over the filters that are bypassed. That pretty much takes the mystery out of the bypass indication. I could add that to the next release.

I don't see a bug with the bypass changing between the filter dialog being open and closed. If I bypass a filter then is should stick when the dialog is open or closed.
If you do see this, then this is a bug. I tried this with a number of filters it seems to work as expected but maybe there is some that it does not work properly for or there is some order that messes up. Please let me know.

[Dan McDonald]

Rick - I thought it worked the same way that Pete described, but I just checked and you are correct that they stay bypassed when you close the dialog box. I don't know why I thought that closing the dialog took it off bypass. I guess I'm getting it confused with clicking bypass and unchecking it for the multifilter generally, which will have the effect of taking everything off of bypass.

Dan