.wma files

[Ringmaster]

I have been trying to keep all of my files in the .wav format, but the Windows Media program is pushing their .wma format; and from what I read, I feel this format is not totally "lossless" as far as compression is concerned.

So far I have been staying away from the Microsoft/Windows "Media" program, mostly because every disk/track I play on my DC/DVD player automatically winds up in my Media Library. and I can't figure out how to exclude the tracks that do not want to appear in my Library; also, I wind up with many "unknown" titles, artist, etc. in my Library, and I am reluctant to delete these tracks, and I find it time consuming & difficult to try to identify all of the "Unknown" files; however, I think I am going to have eventually go the .wma route, because my "HomeSeer" Power Line Control software has a "Plug-in" tied to the Windows Media program that allows me to use a hand held remote control, to select various tracks and control volume levels from a remote location, such as outdoors from the pool area in the summer time.

There is another reason: The Windows Media program is more time consuming to create the database for my Library; and I have a better program, that is a lot easier to add the track information to my database by automatically entering repetative information, such as Artist, Genre etc. Plus it is much easier to select which tracks to include in my Library.

Does the DC 6 Live process the .wma files the same as the .wav files?

Does any one else have this problem, or come across other situations regarding the .wav versus .wma files?

[Geebster]

I don't see any REAL advantages in using .wma files, unless they are a native format of a player or software that you regularly use. I prefer .wav over .wma and see real no need to use .wma at all.

Of course left to the Media Player's own devices, it will want you to use this program for almost all media. All these preferences can be changed within the tools menu.

I don't use Windows media player for any audio regardless if it is playing or recording. I personally use the nice and neat little Winamp for my audio listening needs as it uses so far less system resources than MP or other players.

There is also talk that M$oft is planning to license .wma files in the future. That would mean that you would have to pay a fee to use .wma files. Also note that are 2 flavors of .wma files. Lossy and Lossless. By default the media player wants to use the lossy version of .wma. I have tested their lossless version of .wma and it is indeed lossless. I don't see it being any better than the other lossless compression schemes out there though.

GB..

[Craig Maier]

Just a quick note - the file format that is native to all Diamond Cut Products is .wav. All of the other formats that are supported are converted to .wav when you import them into the Diamond Cut system.

[cromag]

I never use .wma files. I use .wav for uncompressed audio and .mp3 for compressed audio. I never use Windows Media Player myself, although if I listen to an audio clip on a website there's sometimes no way around it.

I use Real Audio for my default player, even though it does harbor spyware. I run Ad-aware afterwards. You can get a spyware-free version of Real Player by going through the BBC web site, BTW.

I tend to prefer single-purpose, or at least limited scope, programs for individual tasks -- so I use one small program to rip from CD-RWs, another to write to CDs, etc.

[DougMac]

On a similar note

I'm restoring some Mozart Quartets for my wife and myself for playing at work. The problem is, we have a mixed marriage. She's ipod (aac file format) and I'm Creative Zen (mp3/wma format).

Creating mp3 files for me is straightforward, but loading her ipod requires me to burn a disk, then rip it with her MacBook Pro.

That got me to thinking about the process of burning disks. When you burn a disk from wav files, is it just the header information that changes or is there some change in the actual content? I'm thinking not.

Doug

[Craig Maier]

As I recall, Red Book Audio is just 16 bit PCM, 44.1 KHz audio with a certain header and a certain error correction scheme. Thus, if you have a 16 bit, 44.1 KHz wavefile, the only conversion is the header and the error correction. Furthermore, the difference between .wav and Mac's AIFF format is the reversal of the LSB and the MSB, but it still PCM (I think - - - it has been a long time since we visited those things). At this point in time, all that we have to know anymore (just like you) is that the Diamond Cut software makes those conversions.

[Ringmaster]

Just a quick note - the file format that is native to all Diamond Cut Products is .wav. All of the other formats that are supported are converted to .wav when you import them into the Diamond Cut system.

If we record any Format that has been "compressed", such as the MP-3 format, and it is converted to .WAV, don't we get a degraded .WAV file?

For my "Music Library", I sometimes find I have introduced some MP-3 "tracks", and don't pick it up 'til later. I prefer to have only .WAV files in my Music Library.

[Geebster]

If we record any Format that has been "compressed", such as the MP-3 format, and it is converted to .WAV, don't we get a degraded .WAV file?

Not all compressed files are created equal. Some files are lossless and do not degrade when they are reconstituted back into .WAV. MP3, at any sampling rate is a lossy format and will degrade further if it is then turned into a "new" MP3 file.

Sometimes there is specialty material that is ONLY available in MP3; for example some on-line music services work together with an artist to create new versions of old songs, or live performances. For those instances, I wish there were a way to do minor restoration work without sacrificing sound quality.

GB

[Craig Maier]

Quoting Ringmaster:

"If we record any Format that has been "compressed", such as the MP-3 format, and it is converted to .WAV, don't we get a degraded .WAV file?"

----------------------------------------------------

There is no practical sound quality loss when listening to an MP3 file directly versus listening to an MP3 file that has been converted to .wav. The reason for this is that so much has been lost in the creation of the MP3 file originally compared to the capability of the .wav format that any conversion loss is of no practical consequence. In other words, the practical loss occurred when the file was converted to MP3 to start with.

[Geebster]

Good point Craig. I was assuming the question was in regards to the original file, not the resulting .WAV from a MP3 source.

Sometime ago I looked at the resulting information from a MP3 source and then the resulting .WAV. The waveforms looked pretty much identical, however (as you stated) a lot of the musical information was gone from the original source wavefile when originally encoded to MP3.

GB

[Ringmaster]

Craig your quote: "Just a quick note - the file format that is native to all Diamond Cut Products is .wav. All of the other formats that are supported are converted to .wav when you import them into the Diamond Cut system".

I don't think I worded my statement correctly; I want to stay in the relm of "lossless" compression at all stages, even for my Music Library. A while back, I recorded several tracks to my Music Library, and I later saw that it was in the MP-3 format (I don't know whether it was the Program or the Source, that introduced the file); it was not imported using the DCArt Program.

What crossed by mind, when I read your post, about DC Live automatically converting to .WAV, got me to thinking: Could I unknowingly start with a "lossy" file, such as MP-3, and DC Live would convert it to .WAV, and I would think I was working with a "clean" source.

[Geebster]

What crossed by mind, when I read your post, about DC Live automatically converting to .WAV, got me to thinking: Could I unknowingly start with a "lossy" file, such as MP-3, and DC Live would convert it to .WAV, and I would think I was working with a "clean" source.

I deal with a lot of different file formats for audio (.wav, .mp3, .wma, etc) and I find the easiest way to make sure I am dealing with the correct file or format is to make sure that you have turned on the "show file extension" feature within Windows. Then you know immediately if you are dealing with a .wav, .mp3 etc, before importing it into Diamond Cut.

GB

PS. If you are in doubt as to if a file came from a lossy source, it is pretty easy to detect via the Spectogram. At 128 bit sampling rate you will notice a noticeable "crew cut" effect across the waveform of the file at about 15K. At 192 or 256, the waveform is still not complete as an original .wav, but it's noticeable mainly in the 16-18k range.

[Craig Maier]

Ringmaster -

I suppose that it is possible that one could open an MP3 file in Diamond Cut and not be aware that it is not a .wav. However, the software does go through a conversion process before it opens the file which should be noticable to the user. But, if one is not paying attention, one might not notice that a file conversion process is taking place from MP3 to .wav.

[Dan McDonald]

also, if you leave the setting for opening files on .wav, then it won't even see the mp3 files, and if you want to open one, you have to switch the setting, so you'd have to know.

Dan